Some basic issues
To all,
I am sure that my experience mirrors 95% of everyone on this list, so I
don’t expect a whole lot of variation in the answers I get. But, I do have
a fundamental question that keeps appearing in my heart and mind regarding
the necessity and efficacy of getting the surgery. Like most, if not all, I
have been on a myriad of "programs", some which were more successful than
others: Physicians Weight loss, Optifast, Atkins, Cambridge and others. The
most successful and easiest once on it, was the Atkins program. When I
stuck to it, I found that I was not tempted by bread, sugars, and other carb
"pleasures". I lost 100 lbs. However, once I went off, it was a slippery
slope, and I found myself resisting going back on it in a big way. Toward
the end of the time on the program, I got truly tired of omelets, bacon and
steak. Once I returned to "normal" (carb-laden)food, I appreciated,
relished it more. So far, I have just made statements with no question.
Please bear with me.
I am looking to gastric bypass surgery as a last resort, as a
stake-to-the-heart kind of action that will put to death the ability, desire
and motive to cheat. The hope is that because of the smallness of the
pouch, the lack of hunger, and the rapid weight loss, I will be motivated to
exercise, and develop a more normal relationship with food. Okay, here is
my question. If, as I surmise to be true, I am going to be going back on an
Atkins-type program, low in carb, no sugar post-surgery, what is is
precisely about the surgery that is going to be different than if I went
back on a strict Atkins program without the surgery? If I could trick
myself into thinking that I already had the surgery, fasted awhile to shrink
my stomach, and cut back totally on sugar, why would I not be able to
accomplish the same thing?
I am sure there is an answer. To put it another way, what is it about the
surgery that is going to make me more successful on a low-carb diet than
without it?
Sincerely,
Danny Groveman
July 26th, 2005 at 6:52 pm
Danny Groveman,
Yours is the exact question that I have been wondering.
To all,
I am sure that my experience mirrors 95% of everyone on this list, so I
don’t expect a whole lot of variation in the answers I get. But, I do have
a fundamental question that keeps appearing in my heart and mind regarding
the necessity and efficacy of getting the surgery. Like most, if not all, I
have been on a myriad of "programs", some which were more successful than
others: Physicians Weight loss, Optifast, Atkins, Cambridge and others. The
most successful and easiest once on it, was the Atkins program. When I
stuck to it, I found that I was not tempted by bread, sugars, and other carb
"pleasures". I lost 100 lbs. However, once I went off, it was a slippery
slope, and I found myself resisting going back on it in a big way. Toward
the end of the time on the program, I got truly tired of omelets, bacon and
steak. Once I returned to "normal" (carb-laden)food, I appreciated,
relished it more. So far, I have just made statements with no question.
Please bear with me.
I am looking to gastric bypass surgery as a last resort, as a
stake-to-the-heart kind of action that will put to death the ability, desire
and motive to cheat. The hope is that because of the smallness of the
pouch, the lack of hunger, and the rapid weight loss, I will be motivated to
exercise, and develop a more normal relationship with food. Okay, here is
my question. If, as I surmise to be true, I am going to be going back on an
Atkins-type program, low in carb, no sugar post-surgery, what is is
precisely about the surgery that is going to be different than if I went
back on a strict Atkins program without the surgery? If I could trick
myself into thinking that I already had the surgery, fasted awhile to shrink
my stomach, and cut back totally on sugar, why would I not be able to
accomplish the same thing?
I am sure there is an answer. To put it another way, what is it about the
surgery that is going to make me more successful on a low-carb diet than
without it?
Sincerely,
Danny Groveman
July 27th, 2005 at 9:14 pm
To all,
I am sure that my experience mirrors 95% of everyone on this list, so I
don’t expect a whole lot of variation in the answers I get. But, I do
have
a fundamental question that keeps appearing in my heart and mind
regarding
the necessity and efficacy of getting the surgery. Like most, if not
all, I
have been on a myriad of "programs", some which were more successful
than
others: Physicians Weight loss, Optifast, Atkins, Cambridge and others.
The
most successful and easiest once on it, was the Atkins program. When I
stuck to it, I found that I was not tempted by bread, sugars, and other
carb
"pleasures". I lost 100 lbs. However, once I went off, it was a
slippery
slope, and I found myself resisting going back on it in a big way.
Toward
the end of the time on the program, I got truly tired of omelets, bacon
and
steak. Once I returned to "normal" (carb-laden)food, I appreciated,
relished it more. So far, I have just made statements with no question.
Please bear with me.
I am looking to gastric bypass surgery as a last resort, as a
stake-to-the-heart kind of action that will put to death the ability,
desire
and motive to cheat. The hope is that because of the smallness of the
pouch, the lack of hunger, and the rapid weight loss, I will be
motivated to
exercise, and develop a more normal relationship with food. Okay, here
is
my question. If, as I surmise to be true, I am going to be going back
on an
Atkins-type program, low in carb, no sugar post-surgery, what is is
precisely about the surgery that is going to be different than if I went
back on a strict Atkins program without the surgery? If I could trick
myself into thinking that I already had the surgery, fasted awhile to
shrink
my stomach, and cut back totally on sugar, why would I not be able to
accomplish the same thing?
I am sure there is an answer. To put it another way, what is it about
the
surgery that is going to make me more successful on a low-carb diet than
without it?
Sincerely,
Danny Groveman
July 28th, 2005 at 8:47 am
I had wondered the same thing..
But now i know…
In my opinion, it has helped me tremendously with hunger. Before when i would go
on low cal diets and stuff, i was always so hungry. And i dont mean the craving
hunger. I would actually get ill, my stomach would hurt so bad. I would feel
like i was gonna vomit. Even water wouldnt help. I HAD to eat.
But i also feel that the stomach stapling, ALONG with the malabsorption process
helps this all along. The fact that i am not actually keeping all the calories
that i eat. Because the intestinal part that they do. It’s less calorie
absorption, therefore, i would think that even if you stretched your pouch out a
little bit, if you didnt junk up on foods, that you would still lose weight
until your body was satisfied with where it is at.
My brother put me through the same questions. He said "why not just tell
yourself you have already had surgery and fool yourself into thinking you have
to eat differently"… My response was that "It might work for while, but i
would eventually go back to the same way i was with every diet".
The surgery is a tad bit harder to break. I mean, after going through all the
surgery pain, you sure do think about what you are sticking into your mouth.
Cause why go through all the pain to only go back to the way you were before????
All the expenses??
Anyways, this was just my opinion of it!
HUGS and i hope you make the decision that you truly want to make!!
Melissa
View My WishList From Amazon
11-13-02 Open RYN
-32lbs
Thanks ALL!
**HUGS**
To all,
I am sure that my experience mirrors 95% of everyone on this list, so I
don’t expect a whole lot of variation in the answers I get. But, I do have
a fundamental question that keeps appearing in my heart and mind regarding
the necessity and efficacy of getting the surgery. Like most, if not all, I
have been on a myriad of "programs", some which were more successful than
others: Physicians Weight loss, Optifast, Atkins, Cambridge and others. The
most successful and easiest once on it, was the Atkins program. When I
stuck to it, I found that I was not tempted by bread, sugars, and other carb
"pleasures". I lost 100 lbs. However, once I went off, it was a slippery
slope, and I found myself resisting going back on it in a big way. Toward
the end of the time on the program, I got truly tired of omelets, bacon and
steak. Once I returned to "normal" (carb-laden)food, I appreciated,
relished it more. So far, I have just made statements with no question.
Please bear with me.
I am looking to gastric bypass surgery as a last resort, as a
stake-to-the-heart kind of action that will put to death the ability, desire
and motive to cheat. The hope is that because of the smallness of the
pouch, the lack of hunger, and the rapid weight loss, I will be motivated to
exercise, and develop a more normal relationship with food. Okay, here is
my question. If, as I surmise to be true, I am going to be going back on an
Atkins-type program, low in carb, no sugar post-surgery, what is is
precisely about the surgery that is going to be different than if I went
back on a strict Atkins program without the surgery? If I could trick
myself into thinking that I already had the surgery, fasted awhile to shrink
my stomach, and cut back totally on sugar, why would I not be able to
accomplish the same thing?
I am sure there is an answer. To put it another way, what is it about the
surgery that is going to make me more successful on a low-carb diet than
without it?
Sincerely,
Danny Groveman
July 29th, 2005 at 2:05 am
Danny,
I echo what Pam and Melissa said regarding dieting vs. surgery. As a dieter
for over 40 years, I can tell you one thing…..diets work for a little
while, but especially for those of us with this disease called obesity, the
weight will return….as you’ve already seen. And you will usually put more
weight back on after a diet then you did when you started. I dieted myself
into morbid obesity. I didn’t overeat, I just totally screwed up my
metabolism….which is what diets do. You can tell yourself all you want
that you can only have small portions and pretend you’ve had surgery
already, but that is fooling your mind only…..your body won’t believe it
for long. This is the main reason the diet industry makes millions off of
us every year. If diets truly worked, then why is someone always coming up
with something new to lose those extra pounds. The thing with surgery is,
it levels the playing field for those of us that dieting didn’t work. I
know you’ve heard that surgery is only a tool, but these words are really
true. Yes, it is true that you can gain weight after surgery…..not right
away, but it can (and does) happen. We will ALWAYS have to be aware of what
we eat, how much we eat, and all the same old things. The difference is,
that after surgery (depending on what kind of surgery you have, but
especially with the RNY), the malabsorptive aspect of it makes it so your
body doesn’t handle food the way it does without surgery. Surgery is NOT
the easy way out, it is work, and it can be sabotaged, but it has also given
me a chance to do what I never could before, and that is KEEP it off. I
hope this helps in your decision. It’s one I’ll never regret.
Hugs,
Judi
To all,
I am sure that my experience mirrors 95% of everyone on this list, so I
don’t expect a whole lot of variation in the answers I get. But, I do have
a fundamental question that keeps appearing in my heart and mind regarding
the necessity and efficacy of getting the surgery. Like most, if not all, I
have been on a myriad of "programs", some which were more successful than
others: Physicians Weight loss, Optifast, Atkins, Cambridge and others. The
most successful and easiest once on it, was the Atkins program. When I
stuck to it, I found that I was not tempted by bread, sugars, and other carb
"pleasures". I lost 100 lbs. However, once I went off, it was a slippery
slope, and I found myself resisting going back on it in a big way. Toward
the end of the time on the program, I got truly tired of omelets, bacon and
steak. Once I returned to "normal" (carb-laden)food, I appreciated,
relished it more. So far, I have just made statements with no question.
Please bear with me.
I am looking to gastric bypass surgery as a last resort, as a
stake-to-the-heart kind of action that will put to death the ability, desire
and motive to cheat. The hope is that because of the smallness of the
pouch, the lack of hunger, and the rapid weight loss, I will be motivated to
exercise, and develop a more normal relationship with food. Okay, here is
my question. If, as I surmise to be true, I am going to be going back on an
Atkins-type program, low in carb, no sugar post-surgery, what is is
precisely about the surgery that is going to be different than if I went
back on a strict Atkins program without the surgery? If I could trick
myself into thinking that I already had the surgery, fasted awhile to shrink
my stomach, and cut back totally on sugar, why would I not be able to
accomplish the same thing?
I am sure there is an answer. To put it another way, what is it about the
surgery that is going to make me more successful on a low-carb diet than
without it?
Sincerely,
Danny Groveman
July 29th, 2005 at 9:45 am
Danny,
Well I had my surgery on July 23rd of this year (open RNY) so I by
no means am an expert in this field. However, I have a little
different reasons why the surgery has helped me out more then
dieting, I was a long time dieter as well, and like you, I had the
most success pre-op with the Atkins diet. While I was on it, I done
fine…it wasn’t all that hard. But, like all other diets I finally
worked my way off of it. I guess Im also different then most of the
people who have this surgery too because I don’t dump, I wish I did,
but I don’t. However, the one thing that has helped me out the most
is that I can no longer tolerate things like breads and pasta…I
dont dump on them, but I get a very very uncomfortable feeling when I
eat them, and I usually start "frothing", which is something that is
hard to explain, but basically its like foaming up from the stomach
to the throat, so much so that it is kinda painful and uncomfortable.
Needless to say, after you do that a few times it doesnt take much to
realize that it is something you want to avoid, mostly because it
takes several hours to overcome, and you dont want to eat, drink or
do anything while you are feeling like that. so at least for me, it
is kinda like giving a person that can’t stop drinking that
medication that makes him very sick if he drinks, there is that point
where your body takes over and tells you know, in the end it finally
alters your mind to the point where you no longer want to eat that
stuff. I hope this makes some sense to you, and maybe helps you out
some. Feel free to email me if you ever want to talk. Good luck with
whatever you choose to do, and remember most of us know the kinds of
feelings that you are dealing with, so never be afraid to ask.
Misty
(tomorrows_hope32)
post-op
7-23-02
320/235/115
- 80 pounds
July 29th, 2005 at 3:06 pm
where your body takes over and tells you know:
that is suppose to read "tells you NO!"
and the weight should be -85…LOL sorry
July 29th, 2005 at 4:52 pm
I wondered about that wierd feeling like what you described.. i though i was
taking in too much air when i ate or something..i would try to burp and get this
forthy type substance that would try to come up… i didnt know what it was…
Just curious as well cause i get that same feeling when i take my medications. I
also have been getting these stabbin pains. I am wondering if i am not making
my pills small enough or something.
Open RYN 11-13-02
-32 lbs
July 29th, 2005 at 11:46 pm
I am sure that my experience mirrors 95% of everyone on this list, so I
don’t expect a whole lot of variation in the answers I get. But, I do have
a fundamental question that keeps appearing in my heart and mind regarding
the necessity and efficacy of getting the surgery. Like most, if not all, I
have been on a myriad of "programs", some which were more successful than
others: Physicians Weight loss, Optifast, Atkins, Cambridge and others. The
most successful and easiest once on it, was the Atkins program. When I
stuck to it, I found that I was not tempted by bread, sugars, and other carb
"pleasures". I lost 100 lbs. However, once I went off, it was a slippery
slope, and I found myself resisting going back on it in a big way. Toward
the end of the time on the program, I got truly tired of omelets, bacon and
steak. Once I returned to "normal" (carb-laden)food, I appreciated,
relished it more. So far, I have just made statements with no question.
Please bear with me.
I am looking to gastric bypass surgery as a last resort, as a
stake-to-the-heart kind of action that will put to death the ability, desire
and motive to cheat. The hope is that because of the smallness of the
pouch, the lack of hunger, and the rapid weight loss, I will be motivated to
exercise, and develop a more normal relationship with food. Okay, here is
my question. If, as I surmise to be true, I am going to be going back on an
Atkins-type program, low in carb, no sugar post-surgery, what is is
precisely about the surgery that is going to be different than if I went
back on a strict Atkins program without the surgery? If I could trick
myself into thinking that I already had the surgery, fasted awhile to shrink
my stomach, and cut back totally on sugar, why would I not be able to
accomplish the same thing?
I am sure there is an answer. To put it another way, what is it about the
surgery that is going to make me more successful on a low-carb diet than
without it?
Sincerely,
Danny Groveman
July 30th, 2005 at 2:42 am
I’m three weeks out now and am having this problem with water - tap
water, cold water, etc. Except don’t have teh frothy feeling. But I do
have a slight pain - it’s sort of like the water has air in it and I
can’t seem to belch it up. I understand from a friend of mine who has
gone through this that this too will pass. I can do water that is
heated, so I do that. My pill are almost all in capsules, and those I
open up and dump into my protein drinks.
I wondered about that wierd feeling like what you described.. i though i
was taking in too much air when i ate or something..i would try to burp
and get this forthy type substance that would try to come up… i didnt
know what it was…
Just curious as well cause i get that same feeling when i take my
medications. I also have been getting these stabbin pains. I am
wondering if i am not making my pills small enough or something.
Open RYN 11-13-02
-32 lbs
July 30th, 2005 at 12:16 pm
Danny,
When I finally decided to have my RNY, my doctor
(Albert Wetter at Peninsula Hosp in Burlingame,
California) said I had to lose 25 lbs before my
surgery date. I thought he was being cruel! But I went
on Atkins and managed to lose 18 pounds, and like you,
it was not as difficult as other diets I’d tried. I
began to think that maybe I should just stay on Atkins
and cancel the surgery. However, 3 weeks before my
surgery, I went to Europe on vacation, and despite my
best intentions, pretty much ate everything! Then when
I got back, it was really hard to get back on Atkins.
I had the laparascopic RNY 3 weeks ago and have
already lost 22 lbs. Funny thing is, you are basically
on Atkins again since protein is the most important
thing to eat, and you don’t have room for anythng
else. I KNOW that I will never see those 22 lbs again,
and that as long as I use good judgement, I will lose
the rest of the excess weight and KEEP IT OFF. That is
so important to me, since I’ve already lost so many
opportunities for living life to its fullest beceause
of my obesity.
My advice is: if you really think that you can stick
to Atkins and lose most of your excess weight without
surgery, then do it! I didn’t have that kind of
willpower. But if you need the extra help, then get
the surgery. I had very little pain and no
complications……. and know I’ll lose weight rather
than gain this holiday season, so it was the right
decision for me. Good luck to you.
August 6th, 2005 at 6:36 pm
Any surgery that you’ve researched and feel is right for you is the one you
should go with. Whether you are young or old, just make sure you research
all of your options. I wish I had been able to have this done when I was
much younger….my life would probably have been much different and my
health certainly didn’t have to suffer as much as a result of my morbid
obesity.
My own personal opinion is that the lap band is a foreign object in your
body. There is a possibility of it "growing" into your stomach, meaning
that it could cause problems down the road. It is an easier surgery, and
that is one advantage. For me, however, I needed, and still need, the
malabsorptive aspect of the RNY. My biggest downfall is sweets. They were
and still are my biggest problem. I need the "reminder" (by not feeling
well), that I just can not have these things, or at least too many of them.
I had to make the decision BEFORE choosing my type of surgery that I HAVE to
leave these things alone, because I definitely am an addict when it comes to
sugar and chocolate. I can still have a little bit, but because a little
bit is never enough for me, and once I start, I can’t stop, so my surgery
reminds me of that fortunately.
Just remember that this surgery and the way of life and eating is FOR LIFE.
There is always the possibility of "eating out" any type of surgery you
choose. We must learn to change the things we did that got us to morbid
obesity in the first place. Best of luck with your decision. If you’re
still in doubt, talk with Dr. Wetter about it. He is very good at
explaining the advantages and disadvantages of the various WL surgeries, but
do your own research also. You can never know enough about what changes
will occur in your body and what changes you will need to make post op to be
successful.
Please tell Dr. Wetter I said hi!
Hugs,
Judi
August 6th, 2005 at 9:49 pm
I’m leaving this as on-topic because it seems that someone on our group
has picked up the KLEZ virus and is forwarding it to the list. Please,
everyone, be sure your virus software is up to date and that you have
all the current virus signatures. (Signatures can change weekly).
I’ve been sent KLEZ at least 10 times in the past two days, and this
morning it proported to be from obesitysurgerysupportgroup-unsubscribe
… and that has to have come from someone who has emails with our
message at the bottom of how to unsubscribe. (Klez works by going
through emails and grabbing email addresses from not only the address
books, but also from the emails, and sending itself out as being *from*
those other email addresses - so we never know for sure who it’s from -
but with the "address" of our unsubscribe, we can know it’s from the
list.)
If you’re unable to afford Norton or MacAfee or one of the bigger name
softwares, there are some free softwares out there that can be
downloaded.
This is a free scanner which supposedly works specifically for KLEZ.
Thanks!